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	<title>Comments on: Do Yourself a Favor: Leave Your Dreams in the Bedroom</title>
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	<description>the culture of entertainment</description>
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		<title>By: Brett J</title>
		<link>http://caughtinplay.com/favor-leave-dreams-bedroom/comment-page-1/#comment-72</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 14:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caughtinplay.com/?p=195#comment-72</guid>
		<description>Haha...i&#039;m sorry to have dashed Gaga-impressions held dear...

Yes, that is what i am saying- the degree that the Self-Made Man can be self-made in the US also causes all the more turmoil for those who crave being self-sufficient/successful and aren&#039;t. &quot;If I&#039;m in the place where i can pull myself up by my own bootstraps (and I&#039;m not), is it a failure on my part? Or is the promise of this place a lie?&quot;

Rags-to-riches is basically the American Tale - with some good reason.    (On other hand from the &quot;poor them&quot; take above), when the perception of how this is achieved changes from earning it to being swept up in it/major success being easily grasped, i think the amount of gnashing of teeth grows.  As you imply in your post, superstardom requires a remarkable confluence of reasons, many simply happenstance and fortuitous, not the least of which includes (generally ;) ) legitimate musical and vocal skill.

Also ties to the immigrant observation - their perception of what The Dream is, and how it&#039;s had. (Likely a perception seasoned by knowing that a simple dream isn&#039;t necessarily achievable: raising a family and pursuing employment in a steady, safe(r) environment). It&#039;s a more realistic (and sensible) perception. 

There&#039;s an almost willing-deafness in the contestants leaving the American Idol judging upset- their &quot;dreams&quot; are &quot;shattered&quot; but it was being turned down that is to blame - not the brazen, non-parental statements of the Judges letting them know that &quot;no, you do not have a good voice.&quot; In this way, the nonsensical idea that you can achieve ANYTHING! you put your mind to, the deception is shared by the parents and pumped-up child. (Or, perhaps, the critiques don&#039;t even show up on their radar, being simply more attuned to a Yes/No set-up instead of seeing themselves on a spectrum that they should be seeking to improve upwards.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha&#8230;i&#8217;m sorry to have dashed Gaga-impressions held dear&#8230;</p>
<p>Yes, that is what i am saying- the degree that the Self-Made Man can be self-made in the US also causes all the more turmoil for those who crave being self-sufficient/successful and aren&#8217;t. &#8220;If I&#8217;m in the place where i can pull myself up by my own bootstraps (and I&#8217;m not), is it a failure on my part? Or is the promise of this place a lie?&#8221;</p>
<p>Rags-to-riches is basically the American Tale &#8211; with some good reason.    (On other hand from the &#8220;poor them&#8221; take above), when the perception of how this is achieved changes from earning it to being swept up in it/major success being easily grasped, i think the amount of gnashing of teeth grows.  As you imply in your post, superstardom requires a remarkable confluence of reasons, many simply happenstance and fortuitous, not the least of which includes (generally <img src='http://caughtinplay.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  ) legitimate musical and vocal skill.</p>
<p>Also ties to the immigrant observation &#8211; their perception of what The Dream is, and how it&#8217;s had. (Likely a perception seasoned by knowing that a simple dream isn&#8217;t necessarily achievable: raising a family and pursuing employment in a steady, safe(r) environment). It&#8217;s a more realistic (and sensible) perception. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s an almost willing-deafness in the contestants leaving the American Idol judging upset- their &#8220;dreams&#8221; are &#8220;shattered&#8221; but it was being turned down that is to blame &#8211; not the brazen, non-parental statements of the Judges letting them know that &#8220;no, you do not have a good voice.&#8221; In this way, the nonsensical idea that you can achieve ANYTHING! you put your mind to, the deception is shared by the parents and pumped-up child. (Or, perhaps, the critiques don&#8217;t even show up on their radar, being simply more attuned to a Yes/No set-up instead of seeing themselves on a spectrum that they should be seeking to improve upwards.)</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Stromberg</title>
		<link>http://caughtinplay.com/favor-leave-dreams-bedroom/comment-page-1/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Stromberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 00:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caughtinplay.com/?p=195#comment-70</guid>
		<description>Lots of interesting thoughts here.  For example, I take you to mean that the more egregious versions of the &quot;you can be anything&quot; myth may be the price we pay for a society in which great achievements are in fact possible.  We need the really capable folks to come through, thus we construct a system where that can happen, but the vast majority is left in a sort of tragic position, because the mythology suggests that their modest accomplishments are somehow insufficient.

My own experience also suggests that you&#039;re onto something re: immigrants, although I might add second generation immigrants in there.  But again, there is a potential book in the observation.  Why is a working family and honorable work no longer enough for some?  Or maybe it is, and we just don&#039;t hear about it because of the character of media coverage.

Finally, you mean that Lady Gaga can&#039;t really sing?  I&#039;m shattered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lots of interesting thoughts here.  For example, I take you to mean that the more egregious versions of the &#8220;you can be anything&#8221; myth may be the price we pay for a society in which great achievements are in fact possible.  We need the really capable folks to come through, thus we construct a system where that can happen, but the vast majority is left in a sort of tragic position, because the mythology suggests that their modest accomplishments are somehow insufficient.</p>
<p>My own experience also suggests that you&#8217;re onto something re: immigrants, although I might add second generation immigrants in there.  But again, there is a potential book in the observation.  Why is a working family and honorable work no longer enough for some?  Or maybe it is, and we just don&#8217;t hear about it because of the character of media coverage.</p>
<p>Finally, you mean that Lady Gaga can&#8217;t really sing?  I&#8217;m shattered.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett J</title>
		<link>http://caughtinplay.com/favor-leave-dreams-bedroom/comment-page-1/#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caughtinplay.com/?p=195#comment-68</guid>
		<description>Peter - agreed; the &quot;Dreams&quot; / transformations of the type your post seems to refer to are more specifically those of occupational achievement/gaining riches. The &#039;you can achieve anything&#039; ethos does seem to be tied at least partially to the American Idea- own bootstraps, anyone could be a millionaire, etc. Yes, more shattered dreams --though almost a necessary by-product to an environment that does facilitate (if to a different degree in actuality than traditionally percieved) a stronger opportunity for that sort of event. (Nassim Taleb&#039;s &quot;Black Swans.&quot;).  The churning spent to fully juice The American Promise no doubt is the cause for many an ulcer.  

(Noted: first-generation immigrants to the US often seem to have a different definition of how this Promise is fulfilled: to them, often a place to raise a family in safely and pursue a successful living of any form is fulfillment of it).

The irony of using American Idol as the example is that modern voice &amp; recording studio technology can erase the majority of glaring issues with a recorded voice -- multimillion-dollar stars can (tragically?) be both tone-deaf and successful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter &#8211; agreed; the &#8220;Dreams&#8221; / transformations of the type your post seems to refer to are more specifically those of occupational achievement/gaining riches. The &#8216;you can achieve anything&#8217; ethos does seem to be tied at least partially to the American Idea- own bootstraps, anyone could be a millionaire, etc. Yes, more shattered dreams &#8211;though almost a necessary by-product to an environment that does facilitate (if to a different degree in actuality than traditionally percieved) a stronger opportunity for that sort of event. (Nassim Taleb&#8217;s &#8220;Black Swans.&#8221;).  The churning spent to fully juice The American Promise no doubt is the cause for many an ulcer.  </p>
<p>(Noted: first-generation immigrants to the US often seem to have a different definition of how this Promise is fulfilled: to them, often a place to raise a family in safely and pursue a successful living of any form is fulfillment of it).</p>
<p>The irony of using American Idol as the example is that modern voice &amp; recording studio technology can erase the majority of glaring issues with a recorded voice &#8212; multimillion-dollar stars can (tragically?) be both tone-deaf and successful.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Stromberg</title>
		<link>http://caughtinplay.com/favor-leave-dreams-bedroom/comment-page-1/#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Stromberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caughtinplay.com/?p=195#comment-65</guid>
		<description>Hi Ashley,

Well said.  Your point that educators often perpetuate this is insightful.  It&#039;s like college professors encouraging their students to attend graduate school--&quot;I did it, so it&#039;s clearly the thing to do!&quot;  But often it isn&#039;t the thing to do.  Graduate school, or college, are wonderful opportunities for those who want and need them.  But educators shouldn&#039;t assume that because they went to college, no one else can live a complete life without doing so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ashley,</p>
<p>Well said.  Your point that educators often perpetuate this is insightful.  It&#8217;s like college professors encouraging their students to attend graduate school&#8211;&#8221;I did it, so it&#8217;s clearly the thing to do!&#8221;  But often it isn&#8217;t the thing to do.  Graduate school, or college, are wonderful opportunities for those who want and need them.  But educators shouldn&#8217;t assume that because they went to college, no one else can live a complete life without doing so.</p>
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		<title>By: Ashley</title>
		<link>http://caughtinplay.com/favor-leave-dreams-bedroom/comment-page-1/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caughtinplay.com/?p=195#comment-64</guid>
		<description>Yes, it is unfortunate that we tell all children they can grow up to be anything they would like. Obviously this is untrue. Everyone has certain circumstances that prevent them from pursuing certain career paths. As much as a child might want to be an astronaut that&#039;s not going to happen if the child does not have the physical capacity.

What is so frustrating about telling students they can be anything they would like is that they may miss out on wonderful opportunities to be successful in their own way. Not every student needs to go to college and, for many, vocational training could be a much better path to success.

And yet so often teachers assume that everyone should go to college and encourage students to go that route regardless of aptitude. This is rooted in the idea that a college education somehow leads to a life that is better or people that are better.  Educators are often those who have bought in to this myth the most, that&#039;s why they become educators, to &quot;make a difference.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it is unfortunate that we tell all children they can grow up to be anything they would like. Obviously this is untrue. Everyone has certain circumstances that prevent them from pursuing certain career paths. As much as a child might want to be an astronaut that&#8217;s not going to happen if the child does not have the physical capacity.</p>
<p>What is so frustrating about telling students they can be anything they would like is that they may miss out on wonderful opportunities to be successful in their own way. Not every student needs to go to college and, for many, vocational training could be a much better path to success.</p>
<p>And yet so often teachers assume that everyone should go to college and encourage students to go that route regardless of aptitude. This is rooted in the idea that a college education somehow leads to a life that is better or people that are better.  Educators are often those who have bought in to this myth the most, that&#8217;s why they become educators, to &#8220;make a difference.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Twitted by rgendron</title>
		<link>http://caughtinplay.com/favor-leave-dreams-bedroom/comment-page-1/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Twitted by rgendron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 06:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caughtinplay.com/?p=195#comment-32</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was Twitted by rgendron [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was Twitted by rgendron [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Constance Casey</title>
		<link>http://caughtinplay.com/favor-leave-dreams-bedroom/comment-page-1/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Constance Casey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 04:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caughtinplay.com/?p=195#comment-31</guid>
		<description>Yes, I do agree. The honor is in the doing, and the being.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I do agree. The honor is in the doing, and the being.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Stromberg</title>
		<link>http://caughtinplay.com/favor-leave-dreams-bedroom/comment-page-1/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Stromberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 01:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caughtinplay.com/?p=195#comment-30</guid>
		<description>In a hierarchical society--early 19th century Japan, for example--it is thought honorable to stay within one&#039;s station (to practice one&#039;s occupation) and dishonorable to strive to exceed one&#039;s social position.  I have no nostalgia whatsoever for hierarchy--give me equality any day--but at the same time I sometimes wish we could have the best of both worlds.  That is, I wish we could honor any person who performs a job with dignity and diligence, without thinking that it is only by doing something extraordinary that a person proves her or his worth.  I suspect you&#039;d probably agree with me here.

Thanks for your comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a hierarchical society&#8211;early 19th century Japan, for example&#8211;it is thought honorable to stay within one&#8217;s station (to practice one&#8217;s occupation) and dishonorable to strive to exceed one&#8217;s social position.  I have no nostalgia whatsoever for hierarchy&#8211;give me equality any day&#8211;but at the same time I sometimes wish we could have the best of both worlds.  That is, I wish we could honor any person who performs a job with dignity and diligence, without thinking that it is only by doing something extraordinary that a person proves her or his worth.  I suspect you&#8217;d probably agree with me here.</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Constance Casey</title>
		<link>http://caughtinplay.com/favor-leave-dreams-bedroom/comment-page-1/#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>Constance Casey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caughtinplay.com/?p=195#comment-29</guid>
		<description>Yes, I agree with your response-- for most kids, true. Fortunately he&#039;s already thought about this quite a bit (he&#039;s a sophomore now) and after his research, is now planning to use the fast track program to become an English teacher. He&#039;s great about accepting feedback and reviewing options. I want him to be happy and matched up with what works for him. And, he doesn&#039;t see being an English teacher as the be-all and end-all, but as an ice flow until it appears clear to jump to something else- within reason. He can always write screenplays during his summers off. We do change somewhat over time as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I agree with your response&#8211; for most kids, true. Fortunately he&#8217;s already thought about this quite a bit (he&#8217;s a sophomore now) and after his research, is now planning to use the fast track program to become an English teacher. He&#8217;s great about accepting feedback and reviewing options. I want him to be happy and matched up with what works for him. And, he doesn&#8217;t see being an English teacher as the be-all and end-all, but as an ice flow until it appears clear to jump to something else- within reason. He can always write screenplays during his summers off. We do change somewhat over time as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Stromberg</title>
		<link>http://caughtinplay.com/favor-leave-dreams-bedroom/comment-page-1/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Stromberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 18:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caughtinplay.com/?p=195#comment-27</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comment, Constance. The bad news is that when your son gets to college he&#039;ll be asked at some point to choose a major, and chances are no one will sit down with him and talk about how well his talents suit him for the major or about job possibilities once he graduates. I can&#039;t count the number of graduating college seniors I&#039;ve spoken with who have no plan whatsoever about what comes next.  In my post, I&#039;ve discussed how this is related to entertainment culture, but that&#039;s not the only factor here.  Frankly, I think many universities and college professors think vocational advice is beneath them.  The good news:  if one is aware of this problem, there are in fact plenty of sensible people out there, in universities and elsewhere, who can actually help with this.  You just have to make sure and locate them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment, Constance. The bad news is that when your son gets to college he&#8217;ll be asked at some point to choose a major, and chances are no one will sit down with him and talk about how well his talents suit him for the major or about job possibilities once he graduates. I can&#8217;t count the number of graduating college seniors I&#8217;ve spoken with who have no plan whatsoever about what comes next.  In my post, I&#8217;ve discussed how this is related to entertainment culture, but that&#8217;s not the only factor here.  Frankly, I think many universities and college professors think vocational advice is beneath them.  The good news:  if one is aware of this problem, there are in fact plenty of sensible people out there, in universities and elsewhere, who can actually help with this.  You just have to make sure and locate them.</p>
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